TRAVELLER Digest 575

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Save our timeline by Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
  2) Things I'd ike to see in Traveller CD-ROM by Christopher Sean Hilton <chris@vindaloo.com>
  3) Re: TRAVELLER digest 574 by Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
  4) TRAVELLER in GURPS by Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 574 by library@babylon5.dss.gov.au (DSS Library)
  6) Fuel Skimming by Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
  7) RE: Jump Gates by anwfh@acad2.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
  8) The Bacgrounds Debate (and Debacles) by anwfh@acad2.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
  9) Re: Discarding TNE?!, & various... by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
 10) Merchant Ships of the Shattered Imperium by Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
 11) RE:  two TL-8/9 shuttle designs by Armand Suarez <suarez@on.rim.or.jp>
 12) Space Opera the game vs Space Operas by richarwt@jtasc.acom.mil (Will Richards)
 13) Cyberware, genetics, etc. by "M.A. Trickett" <mat3@leicester.ac.uk>
 14) Accidental "get" message... by Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
 15) TL8/9 Shuttle by John Muir Macpherson <muirmac@uclink.berkeley.edu>
 16) Tech level debate: Alternate Suggestion by "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:19:08 -0500
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Save our timeline
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960131211908.00767094@TanSoft.com>

At 03:46 PM 1/31/96 -0500, Brendan wrote:

>As for the timeline, I'm at a loss as to why the CT/MT camp want to discard
the
>TNE background. They say they want the Rebellion to end, and then Hard
Times to
>pass without the release of virus, but then the Imperium will return to what?
>Basically Classic Traveller again, so if that is the game they want to play,
>why can't they just play it in the CT part of the timeline, and leave the
>future for people who want to do more than just return to the status quo. The
>coherent background is an important part of the game, and while GDW may have

>From my perspective on the game, I have two concerns with the new game
picking up where Virus left off.  First, it took a Sci-Fi game and made it
post-apocolyptic game out of it.  We may as well play TW2K, Aftermath, or
GammaWorld instead.  The point is the adventuring area was not Traveller
anymore and that is what upset a bunch of us.  Secondly we were dropped into
a region of
space that we were unfamiliar with.  Sure they left us with the Regency as
an alternate setting, but RC was definatly the thrust of the game.  Again,
it wasn't Traveller any more.

Most all of the previously released material, most of the events that shaped
the game from the onset through MT was based in the Spinward Marches.  Now
maybe GDW decided that that area of space had been over developed and they
were looking for a fresh start.

The next issue is this Star Trek "canon" term.  I like to run a reasonablly
canon game.  That way, I can utilize the TNS entries, the mini-adventures from
the magazines and other such normalities, while also contributing my own
ideas and adventures.

Today, I can still adventure in the CT or MT settings, I just wont be
getting anything new.  I can also adventure in the TNE setting.  But in the
end Traveller is Traveller.  Leave the post-apocolytpic setting in the
history for
those who want to adventure there (on a side note, how many people have gone
back and run a "Long Night" campaign?) but for us who don't like Virus, give
us a time of high adventure.

>The fact remains that if you don't want
>to deal with virus, then you can relegate it to history, even in TNE (Sandman
>is virus-proof given the strength of peacemaker systems, and sandman should be
>able to clear out virus infections fairly easily)

>There has been discussion of taking the timeline 300, or even 800 years
further
>into the future, and I think there is some validity in wanting to do this, but
>at the same time, I think it would be premature. There are still several very
>major questions which need to be resolved in the TNE present before we can
even
>guess at the shape of the future -

In my ideal advancement, systems are virus proof, but fringe areas are still
subjected to it.  There is also no reason why there can't be an new alien
race spring from this (thoughts of the Cylons or the Borg come to light),
they could be hostile or not, but this might be something to come from
behind the black curtain.

I dont know how many years it should take to get though the second long
night, but put together a fourth imperium, and have another grand survey done.

Rob
--
Rob Miracle (rwm@TanSoft.com)| GCS d-->--- !H s:++ !g !p au+ a34 w+ !v C++>++++
Tantalus Inc.  Key West, FL  | UU++++$ P--- L+ 3 E--- N+++ K-  W+ M-- V-- -po+
"You have a problem?  I have | Y-- t++ 5>++ jx R+++ G'''' tv+++ b D B- e++ u**
a plan!" -- Anton Devious    | h---- f r+++ n---- y++++


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:32:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Sean Hilton <chris@vindaloo.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Things I'd ike to see in Traveller CD-ROM
Message-ID: <199601311632.KAA02273@yavin.vindaloo.com>

Here's my Traveller Christmas wishlist 11 months early. You'll notice
a heavy emphasis on on Computer related ideas. Refereeing a Traveller
campaign in High School got me into Computers 20 years ago and there's
still a lot of potential to be explored there.

   o Clarification of the legal issues around distribution of
     software that I create. Specifically, if I write a program that
     generates traveller subsectors/characters/etc can I put it on an
     ftp site for all traveller players to use. I realize that the
     creation of some software would de-value the Copyrights on
     Traveller especially if such programs were distributed as source
     code but we should be able to reach some consensus with MM/LW

     Comments?

   o After the clarification - release of a public domain program in
     source code to generate systems, subsectors, sectors. The program
     would generate this data in a common flat file layout so anyone
     could then plug the data into whatever database they wanted to
     use.

   o A program to generate NPCs from the CT book 1 "Characters and
     Combat" or Supplement 4 "Citizens of the Imperium" tables. Same
     as above on the layout, flat file ascii so you can plug it into
     Paradox, Access, Oracle, Lotus or foobarbazDb.

   o A program to generate NPCs from the CT books 4, 5, and 6 systems
     or the MT Detailed tables. Same layout rules as above.

   o A body of Public domain traveller Reference material available
     via lookup on the Web or on CD-ROM with a suitable lookup
     program. If this was appropriately hyperlinked it could be a
     great source book of adventure creating material. Some sort of
     access control would be needed so the referee could get more
     information than the players but that could be accomplished in
     the browser. The information presented here in the RICE papers is
     exactly what I'm talking about but with an index over the top of
     it so I can find it on my laptop.


The first two are simple as a matter of fact I wrote both of
these while running a campaign at Lehigh University in 1983. But
the source is lost to me because back then it wasn't as easy as
it is now to bang ascii files from platform to platform. (If
anyone from that campaign is reading this list I'd love to hear
from you).

The third is considerably more difficult but I've sketched out a
design for such a program in my head. It would be a matter of
putting the design on paper or whiteboard and then implementing
it.

More Comments?

Chris






--
      __o          "All I was doing was trying to get home from work."
    _`\<,_           -Rosa Parks
___(*)/_(*)___________________________________________________________
Christopher Sean Hilton                           <chris@vindaloo.com>
                         For pgp key finger: <chilton@cluster.mcs.net>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:04:02 +1300
From: Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 574
Message-ID: <199602010104.OAA32701@rata.vuw.ac.nz>



>Dear List Members,
>
>As someone who is relatively new to Traveller, but not strategy
>games (i.e., Harpoon), what do you recommend as a way of becoming
>familiar and literate regarding how to play Traveller?
>
>Thanks in advance for suggestions.
>
>Regards,
>
>N. S. Miceli
>nmiceli@moe.morgan.edu
>

Don't.  Find something constructive to do with your time.
Simon Harding

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 31 Jan 96 20:42:41 EST
From: Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TRAVELLER in GURPS
Message-ID:   <960131.210327.EST.34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

 At the Illuminati Online FTP site, there is a set of guidelines for running
a GURPS Space campaign using the TRAVELLER universe. These rules are mainly
oriented towards the Classic Traveller/MegaTraveller style of background.
They have some neat things, like new Advantages, skills, weapons stats for
Traveller weapons in GURPS, even alien race stats for Aslan, Vargr, Hiver and
Droyne. One thing it does not include is detailed ship construction rules,
although there are notes. I have put together the following information for
those interested in possibly using the GURPS system to run TRAVELLER.

TRAVELLER JUMP DRIVES work differently from those in the GURPS SPACE rulebook.
Figuring the size of the drive is the same as for regular Traveller; take the
Jump number, add one, and this is the percentage of the ship's volume taken up
by the jump drive. (NOTE: GURPS SPACE rates ships in cubic yards of volume. A
TRAVELLER displacement ton is 18 cubic yards.) The drives mass 30 tons per 18
cubic yards, and cost 3Mcr per 18 cubic yards. The fuel requirements are also
the same; 5x the volume of the drive, with the fuel weighing one ton for every
14 cubic yards.

TRAVELLER MANEUVER DRIVES use the TL11 Reactionless Thrusters, as given in
GURPS Space. (The ones in GURPS Vehicles will also work.)

TRAVELLER POWER PLANTS differ significantly from the Fusion reactors listed in
GURPS Space. My solution is to use the stats as listed, and impose a fuel
requirement of 0.2cy per MW output of the plant per year.(This could be
shortened to 30 days if you want to make the characters worry about fuel more.)

TRAVELLER SHIP HULLS are best simulated by using the most expensive version
found in GURPS Space for TL 11. If using GURPS Vehicles, they would be
considered Advanced Heavy materials. In SPACE, civilian ships would have a
DF of 0. Military ships would, of course, be higher; one system I've seen
says +1DF for every 3% of the ship devoted to armor. This is a sort of 'by feel
thing.

  The article was written by a gentleman named David P. Summers. Perhaps those
of you with TRAVELLER web pages might contact io.com and see about getting
permission to distribute this to the TML, if this hasn't already been done
at some point.

  I'm also interested in extrapolating GURPS values for HEPLar drives, so they
could be used for a GURPS TNE game.

  Maybe this will give us something to talk about instead of this tiresome
"old TRAV/newTRAV" discussion.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 14:04:53 -0600
From: library@babylon5.dss.gov.au (DSS Library)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 574
Message-ID: <199602020003.OAA23393@babylon5.dss.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Can you have a look at the Tavonni RICE Paper and give some comments
on it (hopefully to generate some discussion other than just
"whither Traveller")?

I hope that someone can comment on the past history of Vilis and
Lanth subsectors, letting me know if I did a good enough job or not.
I would like to publish Tavonni (with maps!) via the Trav Chronicle,
so I would like to know if it is in good shape or not.

- Hyphen
(David Jaques-Watson)


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:38:30 +1000
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Fuel Skimming
Message-ID: <293816010296*/G=Michael/S=Barry/O=FINANCE/PRMD=AUSGOVFINANCE/ADMD=T
ELEMEMO/C=AU/@MHS>

     Fellow Travellers
     I have always felt that the gas giant refuelling is a little too pat.
     Evidence: Ship enters system. "Well, gollee Captain! There's the gas giant.
     Let's scoop up that there free fuel!" Twelve hours later, the ship is
     sloshing out of orbit with a full tank of fuel that would cost them tens of
     thousands of creds at the starport...

     Has anybody thought of making this process a bit more
     realistic/interesting/plot related? Why the hell does anybody bother
     selling unrefined fuel? (BTW, that was a rhetorical question. I don't
     really want an answer to that question - PLEASE!)

     Here are some of the notes I took when I saw a program on Jupiter last
     night:

     Gas Giant refuelling would be a dramatic process. The atmosphere would
     shade from dark through sky blue to grubby brown colouring the deeper you
     go, becoming pitch black at greater depths. You would have a subjective
     sensation of your date hanging out above the biggest damn cookpot in the
     universe; huge storms would be screaming past below you as you descend.
     Phenomenal lightning storms would fill the radio spectrum with white noise
     - bad news for comms and radar. Ever wonder how those SDBs stay hidden in a
     gas giant?

     GG refuelling would be pretty damn dangerous too. If you wanted a nice safe
     refuelling (eg merchants, warships on routine missions), you would:
     a) Seek out clear, storm free areas on the GG (I imagine this would be an
     interesting task on Jupiter; and will the area stay storm free for long?)
     b) Make a number of slow skims at high altitude to minimise the effects of
     atmospheric turbulence

     If you wanted to refuel FAST (warship entering hostile system, suspected
     enemy SDBs in the GG, merchant being chased by corsairs...) you would:
     a) Hook into a stormy area so the gas hits the ramscoops at high speed
     b) make a single, fast, deep entry to try to get it all in as few passes as
     possible
     c) Hang onto dem luckydice and say plenty of prayers to whatever deity
     oversees complete idiots.

     All this seems to justify why many people would want to buy unrefined fuel
     from a starport; it would also justify why the gas giant 'Wildcatters'
     could expect to be paid for the stuff. Running costs, insurance, doctors'
     bills ("Sorry, you say were struck by a bolt of lightning the size of the
     Earth? Please excuse me a minute. <bzzzzt!> Hello, Security? ")

     While you're doing this (refuelling, not being locked up in psycho ward),
     your High Guard could be playing hide & seek with the enemy amongst the
     moons and ring system, using the magnetosphere to mask enemy sensors.

     Last note: I gather that gas giants are what give the solar system a great
     big hoovering & keep them damn comets from landing on our heads every
     couple of years. I'd guess that a system without a GG would have heaps of
     debris like comets, meteors, screwdrivers, coke cans, uneaten felafels and
     other such crap floating about, slotting dumb Belters through the faceplate
     every now and then. Meteor impacts etc would be very very common in such a
     system.

     Tell me if I'm wrong.
     MB


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 00:03:50 -0900
From: anwfh@acad2.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Jump Gates
Message-ID: <v01530502ad3628c7291e@[137.229.100.73]>

>        I'm not clear on what jump gates have to do with j-torps. I've
>never even heard j-gates MENTIONED in CT. Obviously, they could affect
>CT background by quite a bit.
>
>                                -Rob
>

Check out "Secret of the Anchients", a CT adventure by GDW. (I think it was
12). It includes Gates, but they lead to alternate realities (pocket
universes). However, they can be set up so as to make stargate systems.


-Wil

William F. Hostman

EMail:          ANWFH@Orion.Alaska.EDU
HomePage:       http://orion.alaska.edu/~aswfh/index.html



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 00:03:57 -0900
From: anwfh@acad2.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: The Bacgrounds Debate (and Debacles)
Message-ID: <v01530503ad362a9f97da@[137.229.100.73]>

"Why a non-virus end to the rebellion?"

1)      Virus, in many people's opinions, is just plain unworkable, idiotic,
        and annoying.
2)      DGP had worked it out (at least a basic timmeline), and so it could be
        done with not too much work.
3)      It would not be the same as the classic imperium. The Ziru Sirkaa would
        probably be fiercely independant, and isolationist. Brzk (Bzrk? Brzrk?)
        might come back peacefully, when there was a clear emperor.The solomani
        have retaken the sphere. The civil populace have far less faith in the
        system. The attitude, especially after hard times and "The second
        night", would be a lot different. Much of RSB could be used unchanged.
4)      It would appease a major section of the "Traveller Amateur Historian"
        types, who reject virus.
5)      RC & RSB settings could be produced as a separate product sub-line.
6)      MM has already said repeatedly that there WILL be multiple setting books
7)      the TNE settings would not be in any real direct competition with
        Post-Hard Times (The Second Dawn?). The buyers would overlap, but would
        appeal to two different mindsets

"Why a rnadom/semi-random Skill Aquisition System?"

Because TNE, in my experience, and that of many other GM's I know locally,
like GURPS, Hero System, and all GDW House system Games, allows players to
"stick to a character" in multiple incarnations, by choosing the same basic
skills over and over.

CT and MT both had players choosing what types of skills they would get,
but being strongly encouraged to get different types of skill mixes for
every character. The MT Short Term Rule (an option under CT, the default
under MT, look it up!) provides for the fact that INJURY as opposed to
RIFs, Poor performance, or bad politcs ending a career, and also allows
aquiring Purple Hearts.

And "Survival" is easier than "Injury Avoidance" for tables. It also ios a
legacy of CT.

My ideal CGen would have the following lines for the left side (CT/MT
tables were term procedure on left side, skills tables on right side) would
have the following lines:

Enlistment              Same as MT, but add more carreers (make about 24)
        DM+1            and add some of the oddballs that existed.
        DM+2
Injury Avoidance        Failing indicates term skills only, and out in
        DM+2            1d6/2 years, rather than MT's 2 years.
Commission              As per CT/MT
        DM+1
Enlisted Promo          MT needed this; A good idea from TNE
        DM+1
Officer Promo           as ever
        DM+1
Special Duty            as per MT; flat rate chance for career.
Decoration              Add it to basic gen. Reduce the margins a little.
Contacts                Just like TNE
Re-enlistment           as per CT/MT

Allow Career changes (two enlistment attempts then draft for term 1, two
chances or done for 2nd and later, automatic DM-2 if changing due to Failed
Re-enlistment roll)

Also, I want a return to a purely d6 system, or migrate to a pure D10 or
pure d20 system.

---===---

And in response to somebody claiming that TNE did away with "hit Points",
look again! TNE not only uses hit points, but it also makes the average
(666666-x-6) grunt able to take more damage in the torso than ANY NPC who
isn't written up as a PC. Then add the fact that NPCs have but one set of
Hit Points, where PC's have 6!

MT's Hit Points was a quick method of dealing with damage, to resolve the
details of survivability later. MT's hits were a measure of how much damage
before you were no longer combat effective, and then before you appear to
be dead.


-Wil

William F. Hostman

EMail:          ANWFH@Orion.Alaska.EDU
HomePage:       http://orion.alaska.edu/~aswfh/index.html



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 02:43:56 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Discarding TNE?!, & various...
Message-ID: <01I0OLFMUWXQ95RUL7@pimacc.pima.edu>

From:IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM" 31-JAN-1996 11:32:19.48
To:IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  "Multiple recipients of list"
CC:
Subj:Discarding TNE?!, & various...

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:02:13 -0500
From: Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
Subject: Discarding TNE?!, & various...
Sender: traveller@MPGN.COM
Responding to Phil Pugliese:

>>There is precedent; GDW has inval-
idated alot of the early licensed stuff that has been published, including
sector maps. (They generated new ones to replace the old ones). If individual
refs want to continue with the TNE timeline, "more power to them". Discarding
TNE doesn't fragment the timeline, it just changes it.<<

The key word is "licensed" stuff.  This was GDW material, much of which was
produced by people who have been with the game since the beginning.  Not shoddy
Judge's Guild stuff.  Just because a few folks don't like the canonized
material, I don't think they should ruin it for those of us who do.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

Nope. The keyword is "invalidated". GDW's "shoddy stuff" should be just
as easy to invalidate.
======================

>>That's easy to say when it's not *your* ox that's getting gored. But if it's
true then I'd prefer that *you* create your own continuation of the TNE time-
line while MM supports the one *I* want.<<

Don't take this the wrong way, Phil, but your Ox has been riding along the
non-canonical path for some time now.  Why stop now?  Chances are, whatever new
development comes out won't meet with what you've done either.  I still think
the answer lies in going ahead another few hundred years and making a Trav
universe in which we can all live.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's GDW's (& your) ox that's gone astray & the demise of GDW shows how
far astray that ox has gone. Traveller did best with the original back-
ground & that's where it should return if it wants to survive.

Let's be frank here. It's obvious that you don't care much about what I
want bcause it's not what you want. Well, the feeling is quite mutual &
is one of the reasons GDW is gone. They told too many old-timers like me
that they didn't care about us anymore & we reciprocated. Obviously there
weren't enough people like you to sustain the comp. w/o those like me.
The question is whether or not the lesson has been learned. I have hope
that MM will make it possible for me to support Traveller once again.
We've already seen what MT & TNE can do & neither of them cut it. Hopefully
this will change now. Hopefully.

Phil

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu


------------------------------

Date:  1 Feb 96  9:37:11 EST
From: Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Merchant Ships of the Shattered Imperium
Message-ID: <9602011218.AA19939@internet1.lotus.com>

Not since 1992 has there been a new supplement for
MegaTraveller. With the dissolution of GDW they said
it couldn't be done. However, dispite the odds, The
Devnaree Collective is proud to present

      +-------------------------------------+
      |     M E R C H A N T   S H I P S     |
      |             O F   T H E             |
      | S H A T T E R E D   I M P E R I U M |
      +-------------------------------------+

  This is a supplement for the MegaTraveller game system.
It outlines 25 ships produced by the Arnelia Lines (a
wholly owned subsidiary of the Arnelia Credit Corporation)
in use at the time of the Imperial Rebellion. Each ship line
is accompanied by a full colour graphic and animated fly-by.
  This supplement is available on-line via the web on
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/travaid. One ship line is free
but the cost for the remainder is 0.04 cyber-cents per ship
and for the fly-by.
 The whole supplement is available in a ZIP file for 1.20.
Arnelia Credit accepts only Digicash's trial currency system.
For more details on how to sign up with Digicash and get
your free $100 cyberbucks follow the links on the web page.

  Keep tuned! There will be a new major release on the web
page on March 1st and April 1st as well!

  The material presented is based on the Traveller
science-fiction game system, and is produced with permission
under Traveller's player particiaption program. Parts are
Copyright (c) 1977-1996 Marc Miller.

          http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/travaid


  The Traveller's Aid web-page and material associated with it
are part of a 3 month research project into the commercial use
of the web for distribution of role-playing supplements. All
results will be published on the web. In and of itself this
project does not constitute commercial use as no money is involved.
  For more information see the appropriate links on the web
page or write to jo_grant@crd.lotus.com. [This work is in no
way connected with Lotus Development Corporation or IBM.]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:49:56 +0900
From: Armand Suarez <suarez@on.rim.or.jp>
To: "'Traveller Mailing List'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: RE:  two TL-8/9 shuttle designs
Message-ID: <01BAF0F8.7F01F3E0@ppp052.on.rim.or.jp>

Bruce, I thought your message was very interesting for the technical details
and clarifications, as well as the shuttles you designed.  You mentioned
that there were incorrect formulae in FF&S.  Please tell us what formulae on
what pages you found to be incorrect, and what the correct formulae are.
 Thanks.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 08:58:37 -0500
From: richarwt@jtasc.acom.mil (Will Richards)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Space Opera the game vs Space Operas
Message-ID: <9602011356.AA15993@jtasc>


I have noticed some people refering to Space Opera the game
when others may be or are refering to Space Opera a type of Sci-Fi Story.

>And responding to Phil McGregor:
>
>>>As for trying to make TNE/Trav into Space Opera, you might note that SO had
>a TL system as well! Not as detailed as Trav's, but it was there! My dislike
>for the concept was something that has become stronger/developed over the
>years since then as the idiocies that it leads to have become more and more
>apparent.<<

For me CT had a Space Opera feel to it much like Star Wars, Flash Gordon, and
the John Carter of Mars stories. As to Space Opera the game I have seen the
rules and they where only loosly related to Traveller in that they where both
a Sci-Fi Game and thus had some similarities. When I say I would like Traveller
to regain it's Space Opera feel I am reffering to the literary form and not
the game.

  Yes I would like traveller to return to it's old story line prior to Virus.
I would like to see a simplification of the rules or at least a basic rules
set. The current TNE system requires access to the net to find the modules
to plug and chug into your equipment, or you will have to do it all your self.
Time like silence is golden, why waste it trying to figure out a complicated
rule system when there is a simpler one that is just as much fun.
How many teenagers do you know, are so dedicated to a NEW game that they are
willing to do all the computations required to build a small ship, when they
are unwilling to do their math homework?

  We have to compete with TV, video games, and a great many other fun
distractions.  If we fail to get very many new young traveller fans then we
can kiss traveller good-bye forever. Eventually those of us who have played
traveller for 15+ years (I started in '79) will ourselves fall to the old "I
barely have enough time to change diapers let alone do the computations to
build a starship" syndrome. Eventually all of us will stop playing traveller
at all, this time could be sooner or later. Keep the rules for construction
and combat simple and Traveller (IMHO) will survive.
  Either way if you fail to cater to the young teen crowd, you will not survive.

ok sorry, I got off my original subject.

  Will



------------------------------

Date:          Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:41:16 +0100 (BST)
From: "M.A. Trickett" <mat3@leicester.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Cyberware, genetics, etc.
Message-ID: <3154F1E2C75@daisy.le.ac.uk>

I agree that the growing fields of cybernetics, genetics and
eugenics, and that sort of thing should be covered to a greater
extent in the Traveller universe.  Cyberpunk (William Gibson, Bruce
Sterling, etc.) are all perfect examples of what technology can
achieve.  However, one has to remember that the 'normal' cyberpunk
genre depicts a world where technology has run rampant: the moral and
social implications of one piece of technology has not yet been
discussed before that technology is being replaced by a superior
version.

It does not have to be this way in Traveller, though!  In the
governments portrayed in Traveller - i.e., sort of feudalistic - the
controlling body would have a greater amount of control over
scientific progress.  Or at least, that seems kind of logical (flame,
flame).  Would they not have been able to control the disemmination
of "trouble" techs?  If so, then you would not necessarily have the
"chrome and gloss" of the cyberpunk genre, but you still would have
the high-tech that these fields would allow.  For examples of
high-tech see basically anything by Greg Bear (Eon, Eternity, Blood
Music, Moving Mars, etc)... this may not be exactly the direction
that people would want Traveller moving in, but it does indicate a
"top of the level" tech, or the kind of stuff that the Ancients would
have been able to achieve.

Of course, there would exist plants where the government did not have
as much control over the dissemination of technology... these coud
lead to places much like the Gibson view.  Imagine what worlds would
be like after the Final War/Virus would have been like?

--MARK

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:24:05 -0800
From: Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Accidental "get" message...
Message-ID: <110eac90@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

Sorry about the "get traveller tml96-574" message, folks.  I meant to send it to
listproc.

--Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:31:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John Muir Macpherson <muirmac@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: TL8/9 Shuttle
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9602010859.B18243-0100000@uclink.berkeley.edu>


bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) said:
>Notes/operating mode:
>  The shuttle takes off and lands like an aircraft. It uses 4 minutes of
>turbojet fuel to take off and climb, then fires the ramjets for 2.2
>minutes, accelerating to 0.64 km/s and punching through most of the
>atmosphere, then firing the rockets for the rest of the trip to orbit.
>It de-orbits with a brief rocket burn (0.05 km/s), aerobrakes like the
>shuttle, glides most of the way to its landing sight, then activates
>the turbojets for the last part of the landing. Enough turbojet fuel
>is available for four minutes of full thrust at landing, but since it
>weighs much less while landing and doesn't need to run the engines >at
>full thrust it can run for more than half an hour at 350km/h during
>landing, a comfortable safety margin.

How did you determine how much delta-v was appropriate to come
from each source?  I tried to design AZHRAE shuttles a while ago but gave
up because I didnt know how much delta-v I needed in HRF vs. HCD.  How
much delta-v can you use up by aerobraking?

>Notes:
>
>FFS engines have low thrust-to-weight but also lower fuel consumption
>than the Real World. This is actually an advantage for craft like this
>one which have quite low accelerations. Using more realistic engines
>(see the URL above) bites heavily into the payload; designs are
>available if  anyone is really interested.

I'd be very interested to see your more realistic designs.  Please
email or post them.

>EAPlaC:
>
>   These designs don't use EAPlaC for a variety of reasons:
<snip>
>(5) EAPlaC is poorly-explained magic, not extrapolated technology.
<snip>
>EAPlaC versions have so much delta-V that they can
>go to any orbit they like, with costs in the 500 per tonne range.
>Still, TL-9 starport owners are probably best off investing in an
>imported TL-10 HEPlaR shuttle.

What would be the extrapolated technology version of the HEPlaR
shuttle?  I know that HEPlaR produces more energy than it consumes, but
if this problem were fixed does it work?  And would it be practical for
atmospheric flight?  Does it help if I add air intakes?
Thanks in advance. :-)

--Muir

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:47:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Tech level debate: Alternate Suggestion
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960201102136.6806A-100000@cummings.uchicago.edu>

Earlier this month there was a rather interesting debate on the Traveller
system of Tech levels and it's major weaknesses/possible interpretations.

Rather than getting into that debate, it occurred to me that it should be
possible to come up with a "dependent" chart of technological advances
which would allow a GM to determine just how far a specific culture (one
worth the work involved) has come and what technologies are
(indigenously[sp?]) available.

This chart would strongly resemble the advances chart for Sid Meier's
Civilization, with advances allowing certain components (i.e. gravitics
allowing grav vehicles, Internal Combustion allowing Automobiles, etc)
with a hearty set of "alternate" technologies which may have never
appeared on Earth or perhaps only as curiosities.

the point is, rather than specific tech levels being required for the
presence of certain items, it is the prerequisite inventions which are
required.  This means that, as one arguer seemed to be saying, some
inventions may appear well before the TL of introduction.

By building such a chart and associating rising rules of probability for
each time period after the invention of all prerequisites, it may be
possible to get a good picture of a cultures technological history to
work with.

This chart would be unlike the Civilization chart in that "cultural"
advances would be purged; is religon really a prerequisite for anything?
can it be said to appear at any particular time or have prerequisites?
(ability to build temples maybe?)

Reaction? Suggestions? Volunteers?

Pete

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 575
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